ABARBANEL: The Gaza Ghetto in 2010 23Feb10 February 23, 2010
by Avigail Abarbanel - (sent by author) - 23 February 2010
Growing up in Israel, one of the most striking things I learned about the Holocaust was that the Nazis were not just content to kill Jews. They wanted to rob them of their human dignity, to dehumanise them. This policy was particularly evident in the way the Nazis created and ran their infamous ghettos. One of the most well-known of those was the Warsaw ghetto.
The Warsaw ghetto was created by sealing off a section of the city and trapping the Jewish population within its walls. The wall that surrounded the ghetto was 3.5 metres high and had barbed wire and broken glass at the top. It took a long time and cost a lot of money to build. The Gates were heavily guarded and the guards would shoot anyone who tried to enter or leave without permission. The policy was ‘shoot to kill’ because the lives of those inside the ghetto had no value. They were walking dead, abandoned by the social rules and laws that safeguarded human rights.
The Nazis had complete control over the amount of food, water and other essentials that were allowed into the ghetto. They dictated how much and what was allowed in. Everything was rationed to create a deliberate shortage, to make sure that there wasn’t enough for everyone and that nutrition was inadequate. As a child growing up in Israel I read stories about people’s struggle to feed their children in the ghetto. I remember how horrified and guilty I felt reading a story about a mother trying to convince her reluctant daughter to eat potato peels because that’s all that was available. Although I was so young, the mother’s powerlessness in the story was very clear to me.
Naturally life within the ghetto deteriorated rapidly. With inadequate living conditions, poor sanitation, no healthcare or medicine, overcrowding, shortage of water, food and clothing, the signs began to show on the people. Disease and death were rampant. Smuggling of food and essentials into the ghetto became a vital function, at a great cost to those volunteering to do the job. The black market flourished. Competition over food turned some people ruthless as they were trying to help themselves and loved-ones survive one more day. Mental health deteriorated rapidly. The Nazis controlled the social and political organisation of the ghetto and made sure that Jews turned against one another. They created policies deliberately designed to elicit and encourage the worst traits in human nature. Some Jews stole from other Jews and some people betrayed others just to survive another day. Worst of all, they had no idea what was going to happen next, why it was done to them and when it was all going to end.
Why did the Nazis do this? Why go to all this trouble and cost, when what you really plan to do is kill them all anyway? I think the answer lies in the massive effort of Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda and in the policy of allowing outsiders to get a peek into ghetto life. Ordinary buses passed by the ghetto and people could catch a glimpse of the people living in it. They were not allowed to get too close, but they were close enough to see the filth and the deprivation. They could see how dirty and pathetic people in the ghetto appeared, how unhealthy and lost they looked.
Put any group of people under impossible conditions and very soon what we think of as human dignity begins to drop off. Dirty, poorly fed and dressed people always look like they have less dignity than those who are well groomed and well fed. In reality they do not have any less dignity but humanity has always relied a bit too much on outward appearances to make judgments about people’s character. In any case the message to outside spectators of the Warsaw ghetto was, ‘You see? That’s what Jews are like. This is how they live.’
It’s well known that dehumanising people makes it easier to kill them. It also makes it easier for the killer to escape criticism. Dehumanisation can even provide an excuse for killing. It makes the job of murder seem almost desirable. The killer can be seen as helping the world rid itself of problem people that no one really wants. Of course the real reasons for killing have nothing to do with the dignity of the other. But making your victims look less human is certainly good for propaganda. It also helps to convince your own soldiers and bureaucrats that those they are killing are not as human as you, that they are therefore dangerous and don’t deserve to live.
Reading Sara Roy’s report, ‘Gaza: Treading on Shards’ (17th February), I noticed that what Israel has been doing in Gaza is chillingly similar to what the Nazis did in Warsaw and in its other ghettos. I don’t think that the citizens of Gaza have any less dignity than anyone else. Perhaps they even have more. I don’t know how they survive and how they get up every morning and keep going. As a mental health professional I can only guess at what these people actually feel from moment to moment and what long term damage is being done to them. We already know that all the children in Gaza suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Everyone in Gaza would have lost someone close to Israeli bombings. There is bound to be unimaginable grief there.
How do you hold on to your sense of hope and meaning when your life is reduced to living on scraps, when you can’t feed your children or keep them safe, and when you have absolutely no control over what is happening to you; and worst of all, how do you keep going when you are incarcerated indefinitely with no chance of escape, and when so few in the outside world care about what is happening to you?
Most people would agree that what the Nazis did was monstrous and wrong, that ghettos were inhumane and should never have been allowed to exist in the first place. So why is the Gaza ghetto allowed to exist in 2010? Why is Israel allowed to dehumanise, control, humiliate and murder 1.5 million people and get away with it? Israel is breaking every human rights law conceivable in the way it treats the citizens of Gaza, and no one stops it.
Israel and Jewish institutions around the world work so hard to make sure that the Holocaust isn’t forgotten. Holocaust Memorial Day is a big deal even here in Britain. Research into the Holocaust goes on. New perspectives and facts are revealed all the time and are taught to the world, so that ‘we never forget’. We may not have forgotten the Holocaust but we have learned nothing at all from it. There is absolutely no difference between the citizens of Gaza and the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto. These are all human beings like you and me. Of course the majority of Israeli Jews don’t think so. They consider the Palestinian people on the whole and Gaza’s citizens in particular, to be a lower form of life, a ‘less than’. But those of us less brainwashed can and should recognise the humanity and dignity of Gaza’s citizens, and their innocence.
Europe and the US were all complicit in the Holocaust by not reading the signs in advance. They allowed the gradual escalation of the Nazi regime’s institutionalised and legalised human rights violations against Jews; an escalation that was building up to mass extermination. By the time the ghettos were created, things had already gone too far but still, no one who had the power to make a difference did anything. The Jews were nobodies then, and now the Palestinians are suffering the same fate. Just like European Jews, the Palestinians are ordinary people caught in the grip of a murderous regime bent on destroying them for its own reasons. The Palestinians are today’s nobodies, and no one who has the power to change anything cares about them.
World leaders not only choose to say and do nothing. They openly embrace Israel’s anti-Palestinian propaganda. Looking at the suffering people of Gaza they see people who appear to the outside to have no dignity. Gazans are portrayed as less than human, ruthless, devious, blood-thirsty Jew and American-hating extremists, undesirables. It’s much easier to kill undesirables and get away with it, or just turn a blind eye to their endless suffering and subsequent death. Back in the 30s and 40s, Europe and the US could have excused their inaction by saying they were busy fighting a war. What is the excuse now?
Israel is intent on destroying Gaza eventually, however long it takes. Its policies there are not random. They are calculated and systematic and they are leading somewhere. In the meantime Israel is busy desensitising an already largely uncaring world by slowly escalating its policies and the violations and injustice they cause (not just in Gaza but against the whole Palestinian population). Why it’s doing it is the subject of psychological analysis and another article. Israel’s agenda may not be based on Nazi-style ‘race science’ but Israel’s actions are very similar and their outcomes are leading in the same direction as the outcomes of Nazi anti-Jewish policies.
Let’s just not say we didn’t know or didn’t read the signs. Good, honest people like Sara Roy must continue to write and report so that in the future if people wake up and begin to ask questions, our leaders wouldn’t be able to say that they didn’t know what was going on.
Avigail Abarbanel is a psychotherapist and counsellor. She is a former Israeli citizen and a granddaughter of Holocaust survivors. She recently moved from Canberra Australia to the Scottish Highlands. Her website is at: www.avigailabarbanel.me.uk
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Your article attempts to play on the emotions of people and draw a direct parallel between the despicable acts which occurred against the Jews in WWII versus what is happening in modern day Gaza. This directly comparison is not reality.
First, the Jews in WWII were caught in a tragic set of circumstances that were not of their own making. They had not provoked anyone or any nation into carrying out the horrific acts against them. Yet, as we all know, the holocaust did happen and can never be forgotten!
As for modern day Palestinians, and in particular those living in Gaza, there is no doubt that they are living under a very difficult set of circumstances. Some would describe those living conditions as deplorable.
However, what your article FAILS to mention is the fact that Israel has been terrorized and attacked by its enemies ever since its creation in 1948. How would you feel living in a tiny country, such as Israel, and continually wondering when the next roadside bomb or attack on a cafe might occur?
Yes, all human beings deserve to live in dignity and have their needs met. However, what you also fail to address is the fact that the citizens of Gaza elected an extremist group, namely Hamas, to lead their future! This is a terrorist group that has never acknowledged Israel’s very existence!
People are people the world over and we cannot categorize one group of citizens as all being extremist. Yet, we all understand there can be consequences for the actions of a few, or in some cases the actions of many. It is a fact that the people of Gaza voted Hamas into power by a majority vote. It is also a fact that this extremist group has relentlessly fought for the destruction of Israel. If you were a parent living on the other side of the border, inside Israel, how would you feel about the possibility of your children dying at the hands of these fanatics? How would you feel about the possibility of a rocket landing in your backyard?
If there is ever to be peace between the Israelis and Palestinians, there is no doubt that compromise must be reached on both sides. However, for you to make this direct comparison of the Holocaust to what is happening in present day Gaza is shameful!
There is nothing shameful at all in the comparison Scott. You actually say that Jews “were caught in a tragic set of circumstances that were not of their own making. They had not provoked anyone or any nation into carrying out the horrific acts against them.” By the same token, the Palestinians were ALSO caught in a tragic set of circumstances that were not of their own making. They ALSO had not provoked anyone. But, the Jews who came from Europe as immigrants to Palestine did provoke the Palestinians. Not only had Zionists like Jabotinsky, Herzel, Weizmann, Ben Gurion etc planned to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians from their own land, but they actually sanctioned terrorist attacks and many gruesome massacres and razing of towns and villages. How would you feel if your home and land was taken away from you on some crazy notion that a god gave your plunderers the land? I wonder if you would accept that meekly and go on your way. As for Hamas, it is no more a terrorist organisation than Mandela’s Umkhonto we Sizwe, the armed wing of the ANC – a liberation army might be a more apt description when one considers the terrible deprivations and atrocities committed by Israel on a whole population. How about the security of the Palestinians who live in fear every single day that Israel denies them freedom, dignity and peace? What is more the Palestinians have been suffering this degradation for more than 60 years and some Zionists today are making no bones about curbing the births of Palestinians. That seems to me to fit the international legal definition of a call for genocide. I think it would be a good idea if you watched The Zionist Story http://australiansforpalestine.....-parts-1-8
Authentic film footage might just make you re-think all that you have been told by the Zionist propaganda machine. At least you owe that to the Palestinians who are people like other people the world over and as human beings do “deserve to live in dignity and have their needs met.”
Yes, you are correct, Avigail, in stating that Palestinians were also caught in a tragic set of circumstances that were not of their own making. It is also true that many of them have suffered greatly. However, I do not agree that there is a direct parallel between the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany in WWII and the situation occurring in modern day Gaza. These are two entirely different sets of circumstances!
There is so much history in modern day Israel (formerly Palestine) that we cannot begin to discuss all of it in this forum. However, in brief, it is a fact that the members of the Arab League rejected the proposal made by the UN in 1947 to partition Palestine into both an Arab state and a Jewish state whereas the Jewish Agency had accepted it at that time. As we also know, war broke out between the two sides and thus the creation of Israel was established in 1948.
Now defenders of a wholly Palestinian state would argue that Jews had no right in being there in the first place. However, if we look at history, we see the presence of Jews in this land back to biblical times. Many Jews had been scattered around the world while a smaller population of Jews remained in this land throughout time. So religious views aside, it is my belief that one cannot simply take the stance that this was merely some foreign ethnic group who simply decided to conquer some far off land and simply take up residency. It is a historical fact that Jews trace their roots to this very land! Again, it is also true that they held a presence in this land throughout time!
Having said all of that, it is true that extremism on any side is deplorable and I certainly do not condone any Jewish actions that would have completely eradicated Palestinians from this territory. Like you, I believe all human beings deserve to live in dignity and in peace. Unfortunately, it seems this land has known no peace!
From the creation of Israel in 1948 to 1967, this tiny country was not recognized by Palestinians or any other Arab country while hostilities never abated. Thus, the six day war of 1967 occurred when the Israelis grabbed Arab territory as a bargaining chip. Isn’t is funny that it was ONLY after this war that Israel got any recognition from its Arab neighbors of its very right to exist? Before 1967, it appears the agenda always called for the complete destruction of Israel whereas after this war, peace (at least on some level) was finally achieved with Egypt and Jordan? Does that not strike you as strange that any Arab nation would suddenly take a different position on Israel’s right to exist after the 1967 war?
Now it appears that ‘moderates’ in the Arab world ‘do’ recognize Israel and only insist on Israel returning to the green line of the 1967 borders. On the other hand, we have fanatical groups, like Hamas, that continue to fight for the destruction of Israel! Yes, the circumstances in Gaza are terrible and became far worse in January 2008. However, if a fanatical group, like Hamas, had not been allowed to take power over this territory, it is my belief this huge escalation in fighting would have never taken place.
My question to you is the following. How can you take the position that Hamas is not a terrorist organization when they deny the very right of Israel to even exist? Whatever your position is on the manner in which Israel was created over a half a century ago, you cannot deny the modern day reality in this part of the world. The reality is that millions of Jewish people live here! I think we can all agree that they are not leaving any time soon!
So that takes us to the present time of the ‘here and now’ as some people say. Herein lies the big dilemma! What does a country do, like Israel, to protect its citizens from terrorism while also recognizing that they must strive for peace with their neighbors? Sadly, there are no easy answers! The big problem, as I see it, is the fanaticism that continues to exists in this part of the world!!! If only the moderate Arabs could eliminate the actions of extremists! Maybe then……just maybe, real progress could start to be made! I am sure that many of your former, fellow citizens in Israel would agree with much of what I have written! Also, given your identification as a former Israeli citizen, I find it interesting that you defend such an entity as Hamas.
For the record, I have no affiliation with any interest group whatsoever. I have no Jewish roots whatsoever. I am an ordinary American citizen, who traces my roots (in large part) to Britain, and Scotland in particular. It has been my intention to provide a very objective opinion in response to your article ‘and’ on a topic that I find to be very important in the modern world.
As a footnote to my comment on fanatical groups, I should also add that our country also suffered at the hands of fanaticism on 09/11/01. This event will never be forgotten by most Americans! Peace in this world will NEVER be achieved by this type of ideology.
First let me make it clear that the reply to your first posting came from me, the editor, and not Avigail Abarbanel.
Now to address your assertions which indicate your lack of knowledge about the historical record.
Let me take you back to the Partition of Palestine. While the UNGA approved by a narrow majority (due to intense Zionist lobbying) a resolution to partition Palestine, it did NOT become UN policy because it never went to the UNSC for approval. At the time, President Truman believed that to implement such a partition, force would be necessary and he was not prepared to do that. Therefore, the Partition Plan became invalid and Palestine was referred back to the General Assembly for further discussion as to its fate. While the UNGA was debating Truman’s preferred option – a temporary UN trusteeship – Ben Gurion unilaterally declared Israel to be in existence in defiance of the organised international community.
Bear in mind that the indigenous Palestinians were not only the overwhelming majority in the 43.6% of the land allotted to them by the Partition, but they were also 40% of the population in the 56.4% of land allotted to recently arrived alien immigrants with no biological connection to the ancient Hebrews (see Israeli Prof Shlomo Sand, “The Invention of the jewish People”). The UN had no right whatsoever to assign any part of Palestine to a minority of alien immigrants so that they could establish a Jewish state. No people would accept such a monumental injustice as was proposed by the UN Partition. The Zionist leaders knew that they would have to ethnically cleanse as much of Palestine as possible and they began implementing Plan Dalet before Israel was created and before the neighbouring Arab countries even began fighting with Zionist forces. The Zionist terrorist gangs massacred whole villages with the massacre of Deir Yassin being the decisive factor in what Arthur Koestler called “the spectacular exodus of the Arabs from the Holy Land and the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem.” So brutally grotesque were the killings of women (many pregnant), children and men that Israel’s provisional Minister of Agriculture at the time Aharon Zisling said “Now the Jews have behaved liked Nazis and my whole being is shaken.”
It is not true that the land had known no peace before that. Muslims, Christians and Jews had lived together in the Holy Land since the beginning of Islam more than 1300 years ago in complete religious and cultural harmony.
Palestinians are understandably against the Zionist regime which has had as its policy since 1897 the establishment of a JEWISH state in the Palestinian homeland which would necessitate their ethnic cleansing. The reality is that millions of Palestinians as well as now millions of Jewish people from all ethnic backgrounds live in the Holy Land. It is a problem that will not be solved by getting rid of either people and the Palestinians have been aware of that and have been trying to negotiate a solution for more than 14 years. Prior to Oslo, Arafat had already made a historic compromise when he recognised Israel in 1988 and simultaneously gave up 78% of the original Palestinian homeland. And all the while, Israel has continued building illegal settlements on the 22% left to the Palestinians which clearly shows that there has never been any intention by Israel to live side by side or together with the Palestinians. The dilemma is not what a superpower like Israel can do to exist, but what an oppressed people can do to stop Israel’s terrorism that is ethnically cleansing them from their own land. The fanaticism that should be of concern is that of a people who have the supreme arrogance to think that its human rights violations and abuses of international law can go unchecked while continuing to maintain normal relations with the international community. Sooner or later, Israel’s excesses will be its own undoing. An apology, reparations and reconciliation might then be the way to true peace.
Peace is never achieved by revenge either. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been slaughtered and displaced while their country has become a battleground when it has always been clear that Iraq was never behind the 9/11 terrorist attack.
Thanks Sonja for taking on this debate and for the time you put into it. Your responses have been very informative and better than anything I could have written. I can only hope that those who are emotionally unable to see beyond the usual fear-based propaganda, might find some courage and integrity to listen to what you say and maybe reconsider their position.
One can only hope Avigail : )
Sonya, I did not state the partition of Palestine was a UN policy. I indicated that it was a UN proposal made in 1947, which was rejected by the Arab League. As for the history of this region in general, each side believes different versions of the same history. You can watch the u-tubes on this site and accept that as the whole truth. However, it is a distortion of some of the facts such as the propaganda about Jews contemplating various nations they wanted to colonize before choosing Palestine as a destination.
As for your statement about the Jews being aliens in this land, that is simply not true. People, such as yourself, seem to put down the ancient Jewish Kingdom as pure fiction. This is a distortion of history and attempts to undermine the truth about ancient Israel. It serves the purpose of the enemies of modern Israel to pretend there was never such a thing as biblical history! During Roman rule of this land, the Jewish people were exiled and many migrated to Europe. However, their presense in modern day Israel was never completely abolished. It would appear you would have your readers believe they did not exist at all until these ‘Aliens’ as you refer to them started ‘colonizing’ Israel. Yes, I watched those u-tube videos on this site.
I also find it ‘incredibly’ ironic that Avigail Abarbanel, who identifies herself as the granddaughter of Holocaust victims in Nazi Germany makes a ‘direct’ comparison between what happened in WWII to modern day Gaza. Although I am not a Jew, I think the majority of the Jewish community would also view her position as shameful by making this direct comparison! Germany today is a far different place than it was during WWII when it was ruled by a madman. However, the Holocaust will forever stand out in Germany’s history as one of their lowest points of all time! With the extermination of 6 million Jews during WWII, the continent of Europe was close to being completely wiped out of its Jewish Community!
As for the war on Gaza just over a year ago, yes, it is true that many innocent people were left in deplorable conditions! Any decent human being can sympathize with that! However, as I previously mentioned, you fail to acknowledge that Hamas provoked this situation by firing rockets into southern Israel! Now, people can debate the level of the response that Israel should have taken. However, every country has the right to defend their citizens against such attacks! Also, while you disagree, most countries throughout the western, civilized world, do not view Hamas as a legitimate entity. I for one would call them schizophrenic!
As a private citizen, I do not speak on behalf of my government or any political organization. However, most reasonable people would conclude that more violence in the Middle East will NEVER solve anything. Also, no matter how you choose to view historical facts, the reality is there are now millions of Jews living in modern day Israel.
So given that current reality in the Middle East, it is incomprehensible to think that you support such an entity as Hamas! This organization does not accept the existence of Israel and would like them wiped off the face of the earth. So given this irrational position, how can any Palestinian possibly think that Hamas is going to serve them any good whatsoever? How? This is not rational thinking! When people living under a difficult set of circumstances allow themselves to be represented by fanatics, their living conditions are only going to be exacerbated.
As for a two state solution, I would imagine most people in the western world would want their governments to do everything they could to influence the Israelis into reaching a two state solution and stopping settlement activity on the West Bank. However, given the security concerns and the insanity on the ground, it is unlikely that any country, to include America, could ever influence Israel into giving up control over these territories at this time. Fanatical groups, such as Hamas, will NEVER get the Palestinians anywhere! You would think they would have learned by now that they are NOT going to defeat Israel. Perhaps, they simply enjoy tormenting their enemy. Unfortunately, it just causes the same cycle of violence to continue (on both sides) and the misery for the Palestinians continues. It’s sad but all very true.
While I briefly mentioned the 9/11 attacks on our country, I never stated that I personally felt the Iraqi government orchestrated this event. You see, I can give my own opinions, and do not feel I am brain washed by any propaganda or media
Hello Scott, Avigail here. Just a quick comment about the so-called ancient relationship between the Jews and the Holy Land. Even very prominent Jewish and Jewish Israeli historians from the beginning of the 20th Century knew that the story about the exile of the Jews by the Romans in 70AD was pure fiction. The Romans never exiled entire populations. It wasn’t their practice. They exiled kings and key leaders, and would take some slaves, but would never moved whole populations. They needed them to stay where they were so that they could tax them. In other words, the Jews in Europe are highly unlikely to have any genetic connection to ancient Palestine. Most likely the Palestinians of today are descendants of the ancient Jews and if you like, they are the ones who have the real right to claim ownership of Palestine.
Please have a look at Shlomo Sand’s book, the one that Sonja mentioned to you, ‘The invention of the Jewish people’ for more information. The Zionist Jews who came to Palestine to settle it were most likely descendants of Jewish converts from all over Europe. Until Christianity became the dominant religion in Europe, Judaism was a missionary religion that was busy converting others. For instance Jewish slave owners always converted their slaves and servants into Judaism and these people’s families and descendants would then come to identify themselves as Jewish. But that’s only one example. It is very likely that I myself am a descendant of Jewish converts with no genetic links at all to ancient Palestine. I am going to take a genetic test to check my real ancestry when I get around to it. Israeli scientists are reluctant to share findings from genetic research in Israel because it substantiates the above claims.
Knowledge in this area has moved far beyond what you are citing, which is all the standard stuff I learned in Israel in history classes. Unfortunately most of it is either half truths or outright lies. It’ll be good if you update your knowledge rather than stick to what you think you know. All the best to you. Avigail
Could not have said it better myself Avigail. I was actually in the midst of replying when I lost it all only to find your reply pointing to the same historical context and verification. Another source that Scott might like to investigate is the distinguished British historian, Arnold J. Toynbee who said: “The treatment of the Palestinian Arabs in 1947 (and 1948) was as morally indefensible as the slaughter of six million Jews by the Nazis. Though not comparable in quantity to the crimes of the Nazis, it was comparable in quality.”
As for Hamas, I have not heard any Hamas leader today speak about annihilating Israel, but there are any number of Israeli leaders talking about transfer (euphenism for ethnic cleansing), curbing Palestinian births, putting them on a “diet”, keeping them in formaldehyde, watching them scurry about like cockroaches. Perhaps you should visit Hebron to see who the fanatics are as Jewish children spit, throw stones and use foul language on Palestinians to drive them out.
Quite frankly, what happened more than 2,000 years ago is not a more important consideration than Israel’s abuse of human rights and violations of international law today.
Whether I address any further comments to you, Avigail, or to you, Sonja, the editor, it does not make any difference. Both of you seem to speak with the exact same mindset on this topic in every respect.
In regards to the Jewish ties to this ancient land, there is no way to speak about the situation truthfully without a recognition of the religious and biblical origins. The religious aspect concerning the Jewish history has EVERYTHING to do with the equation! You can’t debate it without that because it’s a major component of the Jewish history. And the only way we can get that true picture is simply reading about them in The Old Testament. The Old Testament is about the Jewish people and God’s dealings with them! The bible is replete with their story and anything that contradicts that story is sheer lies. Of course distorting the truth is what some people are good at.
We could go on and on, and anything I say will not change your opinion. However, coming full circle here, and back to the situation that occurred in Gaza just over a year ago….you do not acknowledge that Hamas provoked the outbreak of this violence when they fired rockets into southern Israel on innocent civilian towns and civilians. Again, this behavior is NOT going to do anything to serve the Palestinian cause for a homeland.
On final note here, I notice you have a video of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the leader of Iran on this site. Although this political leader has nothing to do with the discussion we have had, I should point out to you that he, among others, has done a lot to help support extremism. I don’t think we’ve heard him mention any historic recognition of Israel’s right to exist, have we? Furthermore, he has publicly stated that there is no clearcut evidience that the Holocaust in Europe ever even occurred! Talk about a distortion of the truth!
It depends on what you believe. There are billions of people in the world for whom the Old Testament has very little significance. And, even if one believes the Old Testament stories (because that is what they are), the Zionists who began this whole sorry saga were unbelievers and used people’s belief to further a monstrous colonial enterprise that in no way could be reconciled with the teachings of Jesus who had denounced the judgmental and unbending ways of the Pharisees. If you believe in the greatest commandment of Jesus – love one another – you could not in good conscience justify the dispossession, displacement and brutalisation of an entire people to make way for another.
As for the rockets fired into southern Israel – you need to check on your facts again. Israel broke the ceasefire on 4 November when it shot six Palestinian militants in Gaza (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....lestinians). The ceasefire had been holding for some 4 months and it was Israel that made the incursion into Gaza to kill them. It seems your outrage is only ever reserved for the killing of Israelis and not the killing of Palestinians. For someone who declares himself not to be Jewish or Israeli, you have a very dismissive and patronising attitude towards the human rights of the Palestinians. What about the behaviour of the Israelis? Does that not deserve any condemnation at all regardless of what your religious beliefs might be? Jehovah didn’t have any problem condemning and punishing his own “special” people when they sinned, and my, how they sinned. The Old Testament is replete with instances of brimstone and damnation.
Ahmadinejad is entitled to hold whatever view he wishes. Neither his view nor that of anyone else can change the truth of the Palestinian Nakba. With regard to his speech at the Durban II conference last year, Ahmadinejad’s speech was no hysterical invective against Israel, but a seriously constructed expose of a world still unable to rein in the worst excesses of greed and power of states pursuing global domination. Israel is one of them. His criticisms are of Zionist ideology not the Jewish faith, and try as President Ahmadinejad’s detractors might, there is nothing anti-Semitic about criticising an ideology that has instituted and continues to foster racism against the Palestinians both inside Israel and under Israel’s oppressive occupation. Perhaps viewing the video might enable you to see for yourself where the extremism lies.
VIDEO LINK of parts of President Ahmadinejad’ speech http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
Scott, While the Bible is an interesting collection of writings, it is certainly NOT a history book. But if you believe it is, then I guess it would be extremely hard for us to find common ground.
If your faith works for you I wish you all the best, but as a religious person, please do not forget that Christianity is first and foremost about compassion.
Take care, Avigail.
I have read the article… I have read the comments, and I am still shaking my head in disbelief that two people…..namely Avigail and the other person….what’s her name? “Editor” I guess? Anyway, the two of you have the most distorted view of the whole history of the Jews. Let me correct you both! You are dead wrong about the Old Testament not being a history of the Jews because that’s precisely what it is. Accept it! Stop distorting the facts for your own grandiloquence!
You want to know the history of the Jews in ancient times and their rightful ownership of the ancient land of Palestine….go to the Old Testament! But I’m not going to debate history with you because you have your own mindset, so it’s pointless debating the issue.
The Palestinians have systematically worked at eliminating the Jews from the face of the earth but they won’t succeed. God will always come to the defense of the Jews. And incidentally, why don’t the two of you own up to the fact that you are both Palestinians?
I’ll tell you what goes on in the Middle East. Dissidents in Syria are imprisoned without trial, gays in Iran are executed, women in Saudi Arabia are prevented from leaving their homes without a male chaperone and the general oppression of tens of millions of people by dictatorial theocracies stretching across the entire region continues! Funny, how the one gal here immigrated to the west where she undoubtedly enjoys far more freedom than she would EVER find in most Middle Eastern countries as a woman!
I’m not here to pretend that Israel is beyond criticism. However, until such time that you start printing criticism of Israel’s autocratic neighbours with anywhere near the same frequency that you publish anti-Israeli diatribes, you cannot pretend to deal with Middle East issues in a balanced or credible manner! That goes for both of you!
Hello Derick,
I am really interested to know what criticism of Israel has to do with whether or not other countries might be worse than Israel.
If your child did something bad, and when busted he told you that what he did wasn’t so bad because his friend Johnny did something worse, would you just let it go?
This is precisely the argument you and many others are presenting: that because other countries might be worse, Israel should not be criticised… Do you realise how ridiculous and childish this argument is?
I am really curious what it is that you are really trying to say. I think what you would like to say, is that Jews in Israel are a better class of people and that Arabs are inferior. So why not admit openly that this is what you think?
And having said all that, I should mention also that religious oppression and fanaticism in Israel are growing daily and rapidly. Just recently it has been decided to allow segregation of men and women on public buses — my brother is a bus driver in Tel-Aviv and keeps me up to date on this issue. Israel’s marriages and divorces are governed exclusively by the religious establishment, which leads to terrible discrimination against, and to the suffering of many women simply because they are female and Jewish religion holds them as less important than men. Leave it long enough and you will see how fanatic Israel really is. You don’t think that settlers attacking children on their way to school or settlers harassing and shooting at innocent farmers trying to attend to their fields because of a fanatic belief that god has given them the land and that Palestinians aren’t human is bad enough? You do not think that having roads for Jews only, or diverting Jewish sewerage through Palestinian towns, or shooting at their water tanks is bad enough, harassment, intimidation, targeted assassinations? What do you call this, democracy?
Please try to keep and eye on the real news from Israel if you think you are a friend of Israel, rather than keep the blinkers on because of fear of the one you choose to hate at the moment, and a misguided idealisation of Jews.
But judging by your name I am guessing you don’t read Hebrew so you miss out on the real news, on the real sentiment in the streets there that Israeli Jews do not want the world to know about…
And since when did we Jews become so popular with non-Jews anyway? It wasn’t long ago that we were the ones everyone liked to hate, that we were the preferred scapegoat and the target of a systematic plan of annihilation with everyone sitting by and doing nothing or cheering Hitler on. Just look at how MPs in Australia and other countries talked about Jews in the 1930s and 40s. The records are all there for everyone to read.
We have simply been replaced by ‘Arabs’, ‘Muslims’… They are the scapegoat of choice at the moment… There is nothing new under the sun. Just because we are off the hook with the Christian world, doesn’t mean I will remain silent on racism against others. It’s just more of the same.
Do me a favour and stay out of something you have so little understanding of. Until you actually live in Israel as a Jew, serve in the military there, live under Israeli laws under Israeli standard of living and religious oppression, I don’t really think you have any right to express any opinion about Israel. Leave it to those of us who come from there, who speak the language and who know exactly what we are dealing with. Do not drag Israel and Jews into your need to hate others. Your sudden affection for Israel and Jews is not helping Israel. In fact is quite disgusting, not to mention unkind both to Jewish Israelis who are bent on destroying themselves and to the Palestinians who have done nothing wrong but try to free themselves from occupation.
And to the one who signed Mare, I am not going to speak for Sonja, but I just wanted to confirm to you that I was born in Israel in Tel-Aviv in 1964 (happy to send you a copy of my birth certificate if you need to see it), I am from a Jewish family, I did my two-year compulsory military service between 1982-1984 and left Israel to Australia when I was 27 because I was fed up of the ‘wonderful’ life I had in the ‘only democracy in the Middle East’. I would be proud to be called a Palestinian, if that’s what you want to call me.
Is it so hard for you accept that there are Jews out there who feel horrible about what Israel is doing; who disagree with the racist idea of an exclusively Jewish state at the expense of another people; Jews who feel compassion for the victims of Israel’s brutality and occupation; Jews who are worried about what Israel is doing to itself? I have family there, in fact my whole family is there, so whatever happens in Israel affects all of them. Where is your family? I am happy to report to you that the number of Jews who criticise Israel is growing daily and every single one of them would be proud to be called a Palestinian.
You do not have a monopoly on faith in God, and waving that around doesn’t make you sound righteous or good. If you really have faith in a loving God, then where is your compassion? What kind of a faith is this that supports a brutal occupation of one people by another, that turns a blind eye to such suffering? Oh, but of course, it’s the same religious faith that until not that long ago used to preach antisemitism, that used to pray daily for the conversion of the Jews, that used to spread lies about Jews and their character, just like it is doing now about Muslims…
I don’t know what kind of religion, God or theology you are really following. Do you really think that God prefers some people over others? Do you really think that God wants us to kill one another for any reason? I thought that ‘Thou shalt not kill’ was there in the Old Testament as well, but perhaps you read selectively and pick and choose to justify your pre-existing belief system… I thought Christianity preached that the greatest commandment was ‘Love one another’, ‘Love your enemy’ and ‘Turn the other cheek’, or am I missing something? Do you really want to tell Jesus that he got it all wrong, that he didn’t know what he was talking about?
Once again I have to say that there is nothing new under the sun. All you have done is swap your victims of choice, from Jews to Muslims. This is disturbing and desperately desperately sad.
I’d actually written a reply to you Mare, but accidentally lost it all and then didn’t bother anymore. Avigail has said it all perfectly. And no, I am not Palestinian, although like Avigail, I would be proud to call myself one if you or anyone else insists. Human rights and caring for others doesn’t have another borders as far as I am concerned.