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	<title>Comments on: ABARBANEL: The Gaza Ghetto in 2010  23Feb10</title>
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	<description>Providing a Voice</description>
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		<title>By: Editor</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2385</link>
		<dc:creator>Editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 00:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2385</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d actually written a reply to you Mare, but accidentally lost it all and then didn&#039;t bother anymore.  Avigail has said it all perfectly.  And no, I am not Palestinian, although like Avigail, I would be proud to call myself one if you or anyone else insists.  Human rights and caring for others doesn&#039;t have another borders as far as I am concerned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d actually written a reply to you Mare, but accidentally lost it all and then didn&#8217;t bother anymore.  Avigail has said it all perfectly.  And no, I am not Palestinian, although like Avigail, I would be proud to call myself one if you or anyone else insists.  Human rights and caring for others doesn&#8217;t have another borders as far as I am concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: Avigail Abarbanel</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2384</link>
		<dc:creator>Avigail Abarbanel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 00:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2384</guid>
		<description>And to the one who signed Mare, I am not going to speak for Sonja, but I just wanted to confirm to you that I was born in Israel in Tel-Aviv in 1964 (happy to send you a copy of my birth certificate if you need to see it), I am from a Jewish family, I did my two-year compulsory military service between 1982-1984 and left Israel to Australia when I was 27 because I was fed up of the &#039;wonderful&#039; life I had in the &#039;only democracy in the Middle East&#039;. I would be proud to be called a Palestinian, if that&#039;s what you want to call me. 

Is it so hard for you accept that there are Jews out there who feel horrible about what Israel is doing; who disagree with the racist idea of an exclusively Jewish state at the expense of another people; Jews who feel compassion for the victims of Israel&#039;s brutality and occupation; Jews who are worried about what Israel is doing to itself? I have family there, in fact my whole family is there, so whatever happens in Israel affects all of them. Where is your family? I am happy to report to you that the number of Jews who criticise Israel is growing daily and every single one of them would be proud to be called a Palestinian.

You do not have a monopoly on faith in God, and waving that around doesn&#039;t make you sound righteous or good. If you really have faith in a loving God, then where is your compassion? What kind of a faith is this that supports a brutal occupation of one  people by another, that turns a blind eye to such suffering? Oh, but of course, it&#039;s the same religious faith that until not that long ago used to preach antisemitism, that used to pray daily for the conversion of the Jews, that used to spread lies about Jews and their character, just like it is doing now about Muslims... 

I don&#039;t know what kind of religion, God or theology you are really following. Do you really think that God prefers some people over others? Do you really think that God wants us to kill one another for any reason? I thought that &#039;Thou shalt not kill&#039; was there in the Old Testament as well, but perhaps you read selectively and pick and choose to justify your pre-existing belief system... I thought Christianity preached that the greatest commandment was &#039;Love one another&#039;, &#039;Love your enemy&#039; and &#039;Turn the other cheek&#039;, or am I missing something? Do you really want to tell Jesus that he got it all wrong, that he didn&#039;t know what he was talking about?

Once again I have to say that there is nothing new under the sun. All you have done is swap your victims of choice, from Jews to Muslims. This is disturbing and desperately desperately sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And to the one who signed Mare, I am not going to speak for Sonja, but I just wanted to confirm to you that I was born in Israel in Tel-Aviv in 1964 (happy to send you a copy of my birth certificate if you need to see it), I am from a Jewish family, I did my two-year compulsory military service between 1982-1984 and left Israel to Australia when I was 27 because I was fed up of the &#8216;wonderful&#8217; life I had in the &#8216;only democracy in the Middle East&#8217;. I would be proud to be called a Palestinian, if that&#8217;s what you want to call me. </p>
<p>Is it so hard for you accept that there are Jews out there who feel horrible about what Israel is doing; who disagree with the racist idea of an exclusively Jewish state at the expense of another people; Jews who feel compassion for the victims of Israel&#8217;s brutality and occupation; Jews who are worried about what Israel is doing to itself? I have family there, in fact my whole family is there, so whatever happens in Israel affects all of them. Where is your family? I am happy to report to you that the number of Jews who criticise Israel is growing daily and every single one of them would be proud to be called a Palestinian.</p>
<p>You do not have a monopoly on faith in God, and waving that around doesn&#8217;t make you sound righteous or good. If you really have faith in a loving God, then where is your compassion? What kind of a faith is this that supports a brutal occupation of one  people by another, that turns a blind eye to such suffering? Oh, but of course, it&#8217;s the same religious faith that until not that long ago used to preach antisemitism, that used to pray daily for the conversion of the Jews, that used to spread lies about Jews and their character, just like it is doing now about Muslims&#8230; </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what kind of religion, God or theology you are really following. Do you really think that God prefers some people over others? Do you really think that God wants us to kill one another for any reason? I thought that &#8216;Thou shalt not kill&#8217; was there in the Old Testament as well, but perhaps you read selectively and pick and choose to justify your pre-existing belief system&#8230; I thought Christianity preached that the greatest commandment was &#8216;Love one another&#8217;, &#8216;Love your enemy&#8217; and &#8216;Turn the other cheek&#8217;, or am I missing something? Do you really want to tell Jesus that he got it all wrong, that he didn&#8217;t know what he was talking about?</p>
<p>Once again I have to say that there is nothing new under the sun. All you have done is swap your victims of choice, from Jews to Muslims. This is disturbing and desperately desperately sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Avigail Abarbanel</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2381</link>
		<dc:creator>Avigail Abarbanel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 00:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2381</guid>
		<description>Hello Derick,

I am really interested to know what criticism of Israel has to do with whether or not other countries might be worse than Israel. 

If your child did something bad, and when busted he told you that what he did wasn&#039;t so bad because his friend Johnny did something worse, would you just let it go? 

This is precisely the argument you and many others are presenting: that because other countries might be worse, Israel should not be criticised... Do you realise how ridiculous and childish this argument is? 

I am really curious what it is that you are really trying to say. I think what you would like to say, is that Jews in Israel are a better class of people and that Arabs are inferior. So why not admit openly that this is what you think? 

And having said all that, I should mention also that religious oppression and fanaticism in Israel are growing daily and rapidly. Just recently it has been decided to allow segregation of men and women on public buses -- my brother is a bus driver in Tel-Aviv and keeps me up to date on this issue. Israel&#039;s marriages and divorces are governed exclusively by the religious establishment, which leads to terrible discrimination against, and to the suffering of many women simply because they are female and Jewish religion holds them as less important than men. Leave it long enough and you will see how fanatic Israel really is. You don&#039;t think that settlers attacking children on their way to school or settlers harassing and shooting at innocent farmers trying to attend to their fields because of a fanatic belief that god has given them the land and that Palestinians aren&#039;t human is bad enough? You do not think that having roads for Jews only, or diverting Jewish sewerage through Palestinian towns, or shooting at their water tanks is bad enough, harassment, intimidation, targeted assassinations? What do you call this, democracy? 

Please try to keep and eye on the real news from Israel if you think you are a friend of Israel, rather than keep the blinkers on because of fear of the one you choose to hate at the moment, and a misguided idealisation of Jews. 

But judging by your name I am guessing you don&#039;t read Hebrew so you miss out on the real news, on the real sentiment in the streets there that Israeli Jews do not want the world to know about... 

And since when did we Jews become so popular with non-Jews anyway? It wasn&#039;t long ago that we were the ones everyone liked to hate, that we were the preferred scapegoat and the target of a systematic plan of annihilation with everyone sitting by and doing nothing or cheering Hitler on. Just look at how MPs in Australia and other countries talked about Jews in the 1930s and 40s. The records are all there for everyone to read. 

We have simply been replaced by &#039;Arabs&#039;, &#039;Muslims&#039;... They are the scapegoat of choice at the moment... There is nothing new under the sun. Just because we are off the hook with the Christian world, doesn&#039;t mean I will remain silent on racism against others. It&#039;s just more of the same. 

Do me a favour and stay out of something you have so little understanding of. Until you actually live in Israel as a Jew, serve in the military there, live under Israeli laws under Israeli standard of living and religious oppression, I don&#039;t really think you have any right to express any opinion about Israel. Leave it to those of us who come from there, who speak the language and who know exactly what we are dealing with. Do not drag Israel and Jews into your need to hate others. Your sudden affection for Israel and Jews is not helping Israel. In fact is quite disgusting, not to mention unkind both to Jewish Israelis who are bent on destroying themselves and to the Palestinians who have done nothing wrong but try to free themselves from occupation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Derick,</p>
<p>I am really interested to know what criticism of Israel has to do with whether or not other countries might be worse than Israel. </p>
<p>If your child did something bad, and when busted he told you that what he did wasn&#8217;t so bad because his friend Johnny did something worse, would you just let it go? </p>
<p>This is precisely the argument you and many others are presenting: that because other countries might be worse, Israel should not be criticised&#8230; Do you realise how ridiculous and childish this argument is? </p>
<p>I am really curious what it is that you are really trying to say. I think what you would like to say, is that Jews in Israel are a better class of people and that Arabs are inferior. So why not admit openly that this is what you think? </p>
<p>And having said all that, I should mention also that religious oppression and fanaticism in Israel are growing daily and rapidly. Just recently it has been decided to allow segregation of men and women on public buses &#8212; my brother is a bus driver in Tel-Aviv and keeps me up to date on this issue. Israel&#8217;s marriages and divorces are governed exclusively by the religious establishment, which leads to terrible discrimination against, and to the suffering of many women simply because they are female and Jewish religion holds them as less important than men. Leave it long enough and you will see how fanatic Israel really is. You don&#8217;t think that settlers attacking children on their way to school or settlers harassing and shooting at innocent farmers trying to attend to their fields because of a fanatic belief that god has given them the land and that Palestinians aren&#8217;t human is bad enough? You do not think that having roads for Jews only, or diverting Jewish sewerage through Palestinian towns, or shooting at their water tanks is bad enough, harassment, intimidation, targeted assassinations? What do you call this, democracy? </p>
<p>Please try to keep and eye on the real news from Israel if you think you are a friend of Israel, rather than keep the blinkers on because of fear of the one you choose to hate at the moment, and a misguided idealisation of Jews. </p>
<p>But judging by your name I am guessing you don&#8217;t read Hebrew so you miss out on the real news, on the real sentiment in the streets there that Israeli Jews do not want the world to know about&#8230; </p>
<p>And since when did we Jews become so popular with non-Jews anyway? It wasn&#8217;t long ago that we were the ones everyone liked to hate, that we were the preferred scapegoat and the target of a systematic plan of annihilation with everyone sitting by and doing nothing or cheering Hitler on. Just look at how MPs in Australia and other countries talked about Jews in the 1930s and 40s. The records are all there for everyone to read. </p>
<p>We have simply been replaced by &#8216;Arabs&#8217;, &#8216;Muslims&#8217;&#8230; They are the scapegoat of choice at the moment&#8230; There is nothing new under the sun. Just because we are off the hook with the Christian world, doesn&#8217;t mean I will remain silent on racism against others. It&#8217;s just more of the same. </p>
<p>Do me a favour and stay out of something you have so little understanding of. Until you actually live in Israel as a Jew, serve in the military there, live under Israeli laws under Israeli standard of living and religious oppression, I don&#8217;t really think you have any right to express any opinion about Israel. Leave it to those of us who come from there, who speak the language and who know exactly what we are dealing with. Do not drag Israel and Jews into your need to hate others. Your sudden affection for Israel and Jews is not helping Israel. In fact is quite disgusting, not to mention unkind both to Jewish Israelis who are bent on destroying themselves and to the Palestinians who have done nothing wrong but try to free themselves from occupation.</p>
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		<title>By: Derick Johnson</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2303</link>
		<dc:creator>Derick Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2303</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll tell you what goes on in the Middle East.  Dissidents in Syria are imprisoned without trial, gays in Iran are executed, women in Saudi Arabia are prevented from leaving their homes without a male chaperone and the general oppression of tens of millions of people by dictatorial theocracies stretching across the entire region continues! Funny, how the one gal here immigrated to the west where she undoubtedly enjoys far more freedom than she would EVER find in most Middle Eastern countries as a woman!

I&#039;m not here to pretend that Israel is beyond criticism. However, until such time that you start printing criticism of Israel&#039;s autocratic neighbours with anywhere near the same frequency that you publish anti-Israeli diatribes, you cannot pretend to deal with Middle East issues in a balanced or credible manner!  That goes for both of you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll tell you what goes on in the Middle East.  Dissidents in Syria are imprisoned without trial, gays in Iran are executed, women in Saudi Arabia are prevented from leaving their homes without a male chaperone and the general oppression of tens of millions of people by dictatorial theocracies stretching across the entire region continues! Funny, how the one gal here immigrated to the west where she undoubtedly enjoys far more freedom than she would EVER find in most Middle Eastern countries as a woman!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not here to pretend that Israel is beyond criticism. However, until such time that you start printing criticism of Israel&#8217;s autocratic neighbours with anywhere near the same frequency that you publish anti-Israeli diatribes, you cannot pretend to deal with Middle East issues in a balanced or credible manner!  That goes for both of you!</p>
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		<title>By: Mare</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2272</link>
		<dc:creator>Mare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 04:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2272</guid>
		<description>I have read the article... I have read the comments, and I am still shaking my head in disbelief that two people.....namely Avigail and the other person....what&#039;s her name? &quot;Editor&quot; I guess? Anyway, the two of you have the most distorted view of the whole history of the Jews. Let me correct you both! You are dead wrong about the Old Testament not being a history of the Jews because that&#039;s precisely what it is. Accept it! Stop distorting the facts for your own grandiloquence!
You want to know the history of the Jews in ancient times and their rightful ownership of the ancient land of Palestine....go to the Old Testament! But I&#039;m not going to debate history with you because you have your own mindset, so it&#039;s pointless debating the issue. 
The Palestinians have systematically worked at eliminating the Jews from the face of the earth but they won&#039;t succeed. God will always come to the defense of the Jews. And incidentally, why don&#039;t the two of you own up to the fact that you are both Palestinians?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read the article&#8230; I have read the comments, and I am still shaking my head in disbelief that two people&#8230;..namely Avigail and the other person&#8230;.what&#8217;s her name? &#8220;Editor&#8221; I guess? Anyway, the two of you have the most distorted view of the whole history of the Jews. Let me correct you both! You are dead wrong about the Old Testament not being a history of the Jews because that&#8217;s precisely what it is. Accept it! Stop distorting the facts for your own grandiloquence!<br />
You want to know the history of the Jews in ancient times and their rightful ownership of the ancient land of Palestine&#8230;.go to the Old Testament! But I&#8217;m not going to debate history with you because you have your own mindset, so it&#8217;s pointless debating the issue.<br />
The Palestinians have systematically worked at eliminating the Jews from the face of the earth but they won&#8217;t succeed. God will always come to the defense of the Jews. And incidentally, why don&#8217;t the two of you own up to the fact that you are both Palestinians?</p>
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		<title>By: Avigail Abarbanel</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2256</link>
		<dc:creator>Avigail Abarbanel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2256</guid>
		<description>Scott, While the Bible is an interesting collection of writings, it is certainly NOT a history book. But if you believe it is, then I guess it would be extremely hard for us to find common ground. 

If your faith works for you I wish you all the best, but as a religious person, please do not forget that Christianity is first and foremost about compassion. 

Take care, Avigail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, While the Bible is an interesting collection of writings, it is certainly NOT a history book. But if you believe it is, then I guess it would be extremely hard for us to find common ground. </p>
<p>If your faith works for you I wish you all the best, but as a religious person, please do not forget that Christianity is first and foremost about compassion. </p>
<p>Take care, Avigail.</p>
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		<title>By: Editor</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2254</link>
		<dc:creator>Editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2254</guid>
		<description>It depends on what you believe.  There are billions of people in the world for whom the Old Testament has very little significance.  And, even if one believes the Old Testament stories (because that is what they are), the Zionists who began this whole sorry saga were unbelievers and used people&#039;s belief to further a monstrous colonial enterprise that in no way could be reconciled with the teachings of Jesus who had denounced the judgmental and unbending ways of the Pharisees.  If you believe in the greatest commandment of Jesus - love one another - you could not in good conscience justify the dispossession, displacement and brutalisation of an entire people to make way for another.

As for the rockets fired into southern Israel - you need to check on your facts again.  Israel broke the ceasefire on 4 November when it shot six Palestinian militants in Gaza (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians). The ceasefire had been holding for some 4 months and it was Israel that made the incursion into Gaza to kill them.  It seems your outrage is only ever reserved for the killing of Israelis and not the killing of Palestinians.  For someone who declares himself not to be Jewish or Israeli, you have a very dismissive and patronising attitude towards the human rights of the Palestinians.  What about the behaviour of the Israelis?  Does that not deserve any condemnation at all regardless of what your religious beliefs might be?  Jehovah didn&#039;t have any problem condemning and punishing his own &quot;special&quot; people when they sinned, and my, how they sinned.  The Old Testament is replete with instances of brimstone and damnation.

Ahmadinejad is entitled to hold whatever view he wishes.  Neither his view nor that of anyone else can change the truth of the Palestinian Nakba.   With regard to his speech at the Durban II conference last year, Ahmadinejad’s speech was no hysterical invective against Israel,  but a seriously constructed expose of a world still unable to rein in the  worst excesses of greed and power of states pursuing global domination.  Israel is one of them.  His criticisms are of Zionist ideology not the  Jewish faith, and try as President Ahmadinejad’s detractors might, there is  nothing anti-Semitic about criticising an ideology that has instituted and  continues to foster racism against the Palestinians both inside Israel and  under Israel’s oppressive occupation.   Perhaps viewing the video might enable you to see for yourself where the extremism lies. 
VIDEO LINK of  parts of President Ahmadinejad’ speech http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN2LX8qxILw&amp;feature=related</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It depends on what you believe.  There are billions of people in the world for whom the Old Testament has very little significance.  And, even if one believes the Old Testament stories (because that is what they are), the Zionists who began this whole sorry saga were unbelievers and used people&#8217;s belief to further a monstrous colonial enterprise that in no way could be reconciled with the teachings of Jesus who had denounced the judgmental and unbending ways of the Pharisees.  If you believe in the greatest commandment of Jesus &#8211; love one another &#8211; you could not in good conscience justify the dispossession, displacement and brutalisation of an entire people to make way for another.</p>
<p>As for the rockets fired into southern Israel &#8211; you need to check on your facts again.  Israel broke the ceasefire on 4 November when it shot six Palestinian militants in Gaza (see <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....lestinians</a>). The ceasefire had been holding for some 4 months and it was Israel that made the incursion into Gaza to kill them.  It seems your outrage is only ever reserved for the killing of Israelis and not the killing of Palestinians.  For someone who declares himself not to be Jewish or Israeli, you have a very dismissive and patronising attitude towards the human rights of the Palestinians.  What about the behaviour of the Israelis?  Does that not deserve any condemnation at all regardless of what your religious beliefs might be?  Jehovah didn&#8217;t have any problem condemning and punishing his own &#8220;special&#8221; people when they sinned, and my, how they sinned.  The Old Testament is replete with instances of brimstone and damnation.</p>
<p>Ahmadinejad is entitled to hold whatever view he wishes.  Neither his view nor that of anyone else can change the truth of the Palestinian Nakba.   With regard to his speech at the Durban II conference last year, Ahmadinejad’s speech was no hysterical invective against Israel,  but a seriously constructed expose of a world still unable to rein in the  worst excesses of greed and power of states pursuing global domination.  Israel is one of them.  His criticisms are of Zionist ideology not the  Jewish faith, and try as President Ahmadinejad’s detractors might, there is  nothing anti-Semitic about criticising an ideology that has instituted and  continues to foster racism against the Palestinians both inside Israel and  under Israel’s oppressive occupation.   Perhaps viewing the video might enable you to see for yourself where the extremism lies.<br />
VIDEO LINK of  parts of President Ahmadinejad’ speech <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN2LX8qxILw&#038;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related</a></p>
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		<title>By: Scott Evans</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2253</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 03:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2253</guid>
		<description>Whether I address any further comments to you, Avigail, or to you, Sonja, the editor, it does not make any difference. Both of you seem to speak with the exact same mindset on this topic in every respect.

In regards to the Jewish ties to this ancient land, there is no way to speak about the situation truthfully without a recognition of the religious and biblical origins. The religious aspect concerning the Jewish history has EVERYTHING to do with the equation! You can&#039;t debate it without that because it&#039;s a major component of the Jewish history. And the only way we can get that true picture is simply reading about them in The Old Testament.  The Old Testament is about the Jewish people and God&#039;s dealings with them! The bible is replete with their story and anything that contradicts that story is sheer lies.  Of course distorting the truth is what some people are good at.

We could go on and on, and anything I say will not change your opinion.  However, coming full circle here, and back to the situation that occurred in Gaza just over a year ago....you do not acknowledge that Hamas provoked the outbreak of this violence when they fired rockets into southern Israel on innocent civilian towns and civilians.  Again, this behavior is NOT going to do anything to serve the Palestinian cause for a homeland.

On final note here, I notice you have a video of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the leader of Iran on this site.  Although this political leader has nothing to do with the discussion we have had, I should point out to you that he, among others, has done a lot to help support extremism.  I don&#039;t think we&#039;ve heard him mention any historic recognition of Israel&#039;s right to exist, have we?  Furthermore, he has publicly stated that there is no clearcut evidience that the Holocaust in Europe ever even occurred!  Talk about a distortion of the truth!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether I address any further comments to you, Avigail, or to you, Sonja, the editor, it does not make any difference. Both of you seem to speak with the exact same mindset on this topic in every respect.</p>
<p>In regards to the Jewish ties to this ancient land, there is no way to speak about the situation truthfully without a recognition of the religious and biblical origins. The religious aspect concerning the Jewish history has EVERYTHING to do with the equation! You can&#8217;t debate it without that because it&#8217;s a major component of the Jewish history. And the only way we can get that true picture is simply reading about them in The Old Testament.  The Old Testament is about the Jewish people and God&#8217;s dealings with them! The bible is replete with their story and anything that contradicts that story is sheer lies.  Of course distorting the truth is what some people are good at.</p>
<p>We could go on and on, and anything I say will not change your opinion.  However, coming full circle here, and back to the situation that occurred in Gaza just over a year ago&#8230;.you do not acknowledge that Hamas provoked the outbreak of this violence when they fired rockets into southern Israel on innocent civilian towns and civilians.  Again, this behavior is NOT going to do anything to serve the Palestinian cause for a homeland.</p>
<p>On final note here, I notice you have a video of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the leader of Iran on this site.  Although this political leader has nothing to do with the discussion we have had, I should point out to you that he, among others, has done a lot to help support extremism.  I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve heard him mention any historic recognition of Israel&#8217;s right to exist, have we?  Furthermore, he has publicly stated that there is no clearcut evidience that the Holocaust in Europe ever even occurred!  Talk about a distortion of the truth!</p>
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		<title>By: Editor</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2232</link>
		<dc:creator>Editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2232</guid>
		<description>Could not have said it better myself Avigail.  I was actually in the midst of replying when I lost it all only to find your reply pointing to the same historical context and verification.   Another source that Scott might like to investigate is the distinguished British historian, Arnold J. Toynbee who said: “The treatment of the Palestinian Arabs in 1947 (and 1948) was as morally indefensible as the slaughter of six million Jews by the Nazis. Though not comparable in quantity to the crimes of the Nazis, it was comparable in quality.”

As for Hamas, I have not heard any Hamas leader today speak about annihilating Israel, but there are any number of Israeli leaders talking about transfer (euphenism for ethnic cleansing), curbing Palestinian births, putting them on a &quot;diet&quot;,  keeping them in formaldehyde, watching them scurry about like cockroaches.  Perhaps you should visit Hebron to see who the fanatics are as Jewish children spit, throw stones and use foul language on Palestinians to drive them out.

Quite frankly, what happened more than 2,000 years ago is not a more important consideration than Israel&#039;s abuse of human rights and violations of international law today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could not have said it better myself Avigail.  I was actually in the midst of replying when I lost it all only to find your reply pointing to the same historical context and verification.   Another source that Scott might like to investigate is the distinguished British historian, Arnold J. Toynbee who said: “The treatment of the Palestinian Arabs in 1947 (and 1948) was as morally indefensible as the slaughter of six million Jews by the Nazis. Though not comparable in quantity to the crimes of the Nazis, it was comparable in quality.”</p>
<p>As for Hamas, I have not heard any Hamas leader today speak about annihilating Israel, but there are any number of Israeli leaders talking about transfer (euphenism for ethnic cleansing), curbing Palestinian births, putting them on a &#8220;diet&#8221;,  keeping them in formaldehyde, watching them scurry about like cockroaches.  Perhaps you should visit Hebron to see who the fanatics are as Jewish children spit, throw stones and use foul language on Palestinians to drive them out.</p>
<p>Quite frankly, what happened more than 2,000 years ago is not a more important consideration than Israel&#8217;s abuse of human rights and violations of international law today.</p>
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		<title>By: Avigail Abarbanel</title>
		<link>http://australiansforpalestine.com/18247/comment-page-1#comment-2230</link>
		<dc:creator>Avigail Abarbanel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://australiansforpalestine.com/?p=18247#comment-2230</guid>
		<description>Hello Scott, Avigail here. Just a quick comment about the so-called ancient relationship between the Jews and the Holy Land. Even very prominent Jewish and Jewish Israeli historians from the beginning of the 20th Century knew that the story about the exile of the Jews by the Romans in 70AD was pure fiction. The Romans never exiled entire populations. It wasn&#039;t their practice. They exiled kings and key leaders, and would take some slaves, but would never moved whole populations. They needed them to stay where they were so that they could tax them. In other words, the Jews in Europe are highly unlikely to have any genetic connection to ancient Palestine. Most likely the Palestinians of today are descendants of the ancient Jews and if you like, they are the ones who have the real right to claim ownership of Palestine.

Please have a look at Shlomo Sand&#039;s book, the one that Sonja mentioned to you, &#039;The invention of the Jewish people&#039; for more information. The Zionist Jews who came to Palestine to settle it were most likely descendants of Jewish converts from all over Europe. Until Christianity became the dominant religion in Europe, Judaism was a missionary religion that was busy converting others. For instance Jewish slave owners always converted their slaves and servants into Judaism and these people&#039;s families and descendants would then come to identify themselves as Jewish. But that&#039;s only one example. It is very likely that I myself am a descendant of Jewish converts with no genetic links at all to ancient Palestine. I am going to take a genetic test to check my real ancestry when I get around to it. Israeli scientists are reluctant to share findings from genetic research in Israel because it substantiates the above claims. 

Knowledge in this area has moved far beyond what you are citing, which is all the standard stuff I learned in Israel in history classes. Unfortunately most of it is either half truths or outright lies. It&#039;ll be good if you update your knowledge rather than stick to what you think you know. All the best to you. Avigail</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Scott, Avigail here. Just a quick comment about the so-called ancient relationship between the Jews and the Holy Land. Even very prominent Jewish and Jewish Israeli historians from the beginning of the 20th Century knew that the story about the exile of the Jews by the Romans in 70AD was pure fiction. The Romans never exiled entire populations. It wasn&#8217;t their practice. They exiled kings and key leaders, and would take some slaves, but would never moved whole populations. They needed them to stay where they were so that they could tax them. In other words, the Jews in Europe are highly unlikely to have any genetic connection to ancient Palestine. Most likely the Palestinians of today are descendants of the ancient Jews and if you like, they are the ones who have the real right to claim ownership of Palestine.</p>
<p>Please have a look at Shlomo Sand&#8217;s book, the one that Sonja mentioned to you, &#8216;The invention of the Jewish people&#8217; for more information. The Zionist Jews who came to Palestine to settle it were most likely descendants of Jewish converts from all over Europe. Until Christianity became the dominant religion in Europe, Judaism was a missionary religion that was busy converting others. For instance Jewish slave owners always converted their slaves and servants into Judaism and these people&#8217;s families and descendants would then come to identify themselves as Jewish. But that&#8217;s only one example. It is very likely that I myself am a descendant of Jewish converts with no genetic links at all to ancient Palestine. I am going to take a genetic test to check my real ancestry when I get around to it. Israeli scientists are reluctant to share findings from genetic research in Israel because it substantiates the above claims. </p>
<p>Knowledge in this area has moved far beyond what you are citing, which is all the standard stuff I learned in Israel in history classes. Unfortunately most of it is either half truths or outright lies. It&#8217;ll be good if you update your knowledge rather than stick to what you think you know. All the best to you. Avigail</p>
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